Date: Aug 08, 2018 8:43 pm Title: Chapter 18
Great chapter: Justin can see the new Brian and he made the Kinneys very happy with this unplanned meeting.
Author's Response:
Yes, he did a good thing with his surprise :)
And it's important for Justin to see and realise that Brian is not the same person anymore he has been when they've last been together.
More will be up soon :)
Date: Aug 07, 2018 10:34 pm Title: Chapter 17
How do you want them to be held accountable? What do you want Justin to do? Please, I am really interested to hear what readers who think Justin is being weak here would like him to do. So far I've only heard generic statements like him holding them accountable, but what should he do specifically that would make you see him as strong? Should he have taken Brian to court? Should he have uprooted his son from the only home he has ever known? Should he have forbidden his mother and Debbie from ever seeing their grandson again?
I’m not talking in terms of any of those things, make them actually work for the affection the Justin is doling out. None of them have done the hard work needed yet. I was never suggesting court or uprooting the kids. Everyone has said all the right words, but the actions aren’t there at this point. They cried, said sorry and Justin forgave without them really earning it. They’ve gotten the milk without having to buy the cow.
Date: Aug 07, 2018 2:38 pm Title: Chapter 17
I think this chapter got me from being annoyed to livid. Each chapter i hoped for justin to grow a backbone. Thinking of the kids doesn't mean forgetting yourself.
Jennifer got off free just like that, sure she felt guilty and shed a few tears here and there, but to just forgive her like that... and dont get me started on debbie. The most stupid applogy i have ever heard. And to think justin actually took it is sad. Each time someone started crying, he feels bad and forgets everything. At this point i start to wonder if he will be doing the same thing when mikey/lindsay/melanie have a breakdown in front of him?
I think what i loved about justin is his ability to stand up for himself. That just doesn't seem to be happening here. So regretfully eventhough i really like your style of writing, this is the end for me. Maybe i would revisit this once again when it is finished.
Author's Response:
I have to disagree - Justin is not forgetting himself. He is doing exactly what he wants to do. And he is doing it for himself! He is doing it because he has made a choice about what he wants his life to be like. What he wants his son's life to be like. He wants these people in his life even though they have hurt him because he loves them and he doesn't want to live without them. Yes, he is hurt and feels betrayed, but he also loves these people and apparently he loves them enough to try to forgive them for their behaviour and to try and move on. That to me takes strength and makes him the strongest character in this whole mess...
We seem to have very different views of what standing up for yourself and having a backbone means, but that's okay. That's life :) People disagree, people have different views and that's what makes life so interesting.
I am sorry this story is not for you, but I don't think we would have ever seen eye to eye about Justin's behaviour ;)
Thanks for leaving your comments anyway and for sharing your opinions. I really appreciate you taking the time despite disagreeing with the characters so strongly :)
Date: Aug 07, 2018 6:26 am Title: Chapter 17
Hi! Again, great chapter! i'm so in love with Luke and Gus - they area so cute! But first, a few words about Deb. I'm glad she apologized and - most important thing - told Justin the truth. Because I think Justin's right when saying, there's only a chance to overcome the past and to try to forgive, if you get honesty. Her reasons... What should I say? From her point of view understandable, but again, Justin is not Brian and Justin is also not Denny. Justin is Justin but that's unfortenately something they haven't seen or understand. But it's terrible how you can destroy at least a part of someone's elses life by such a thinking or through your own issues. But nevertheless, it's a little start for Justin and Deb and at least Justin knows that it was never about him but about Deb's own issues and problems.
Justin and this house-situation... I asked myself why Justin is so insecure (still, I wouldn't call it weak) about the whole matter. Most situations I remember, Justin had always done what he wanted, never asked or speak to Brian first. And that's why I really like how he reacts here. We already agreed that they should've had talked more to each other in the Show, making common decisions and finding solutions and so on. And that's why I love the way Justin reacts. In addition, there's maybe also his slight insecurity as a sudden father, but I think first of all, he reacts this way because it's about the kids. His instincts told him not just to look for an house and buy it (and yeah, he could do this, he has every right to do it), but first speak to Brian about this situation, not to ask for permission, but for his opinion, to make a joint decision, that won't harm the children, but will be best for them. Because, Justin is not Brian, he is not Debbie and he is not Jennifer! Again, in my opinion, he is the most matured and bravest person here and I would like to hug him to give him some more strenght.
I'm very curious about the next chapter! Hopefully, there will be some more of Brian. I hope they'll find a good solution together... I kono it's much too early to move in together or something like that, but a new house... I don't know, but I don't really like this idea. I'm also curious about the family-drawing because you mentioned a reaction by Brian... I just hope, he won't disappoint Justin any futher. I wish, he would start to fight a little bit more for Justin. So far, he seemed a bit too indifferent, although I think they still love each other...
Another question arises to me again and again, and I wonder if this will eventually be topic in your story again? How much longer would they have concealed Luke's existence? They've more or less already dealt with their own problems or are currently working on them. Well, Brian has apparently only now realized the full extent of this tragedy and his actions. But Debbie won't have known for two weeks why she didn't inform Justin at the time. If Justin hadn't returned to Pittsburgh, wouldN't anyone have ever told him? And when he was back in Pittsburgh and everyone realized that he was living in this city right now again, how could Jennifer behave like that? Or had she already talked to Brian? Did Brian mean to tell Justin? So many questiions... :-) Can't wait to read more! Warmest regards!
Author's Response:
The problem seems to have been that not a single one of them has managed to look past their own nose to consider Justin in any of their actions. They all went by their own lifes, their own opinions, their own behaviours in the past and just projected that on poor Justin while at the same time totally misunderstanding the reason why he has left for New York.
To them him leaving for New York meant that he wanted this career as well, meant that he actually cared for it enough to cancel his wedding. If only they all would have talked honestly after the cancelled wedding.
I am sorry to say, but the way it was handled on the show it felt very rushed how Justin moved to New York. Not really thought through and planned and that is something I intentionally used in this story. If Justin was suddenly so eager to leave Pittsburgh for New York, maybe he did care for that career more than he had admitted at first? Or at least that's something Brian, Jennifer and Debbie told themselves to justify their actions. Wny else would he have cancelled his wedding, something he had dreamed of for so long and would have moved more than 300 miles away from the love of his life?
I wouldn't call Justin's behaviour about the house hunt and telling Brian insecure or weak. Justin is trying to live by the agreement he has made with Brian. That they would try to be friends and would talk about decisions concerning their son. Maybe he is being too considerate, that is for others to decide, but he is just trying to do what he now expects Brian to do as well: Talk to him and find decisions together when it concerns Luke.
As you so rightly noticed: Justin is not Brian, he is not Jennifer and he is not Debbie. He doesn't want to exclude them from his son's life and in my opinion would never treat them the way they have treated him even though they might deserve it. He knows how hurt he has been and he doesn't seem like the type of man to willfully go out and hurt people just because he can. At least not to me.
Yes, there will be more of Brian in the next chapter. I promise he will be back :) As for Brian fighting for Justin...hmmm... we'll find out soon about that. Does Brian love Justin? Does he want him back as a lover? Boyfriend? Partner? We'll see...
As for your last paragraph: That is definitely something that will be picked up in this universe... And you are on the right track with some of your assumptions there ;)
Thank you so much for your comment! I really appreciate all of them and love reading them :)
More will be up soon - and yes, with Brian :)
Date: Aug 06, 2018 8:57 pm Title: Chapter 17
Every chapter I keep hoping that Justin finally grows a backbone and stands his ground, but he has yet to do it. For the love of everything holy allow the man his anger and let him process through it. Every time one of them cries or starts to feel bad about how they hurt him Justin is somehow the one apologizing like he was in the wrong. Is Justin really not going to stand up for himself for the entirety of the story? If not then it’s a real shame and it makes me very upset. I am so sorry that you truly feel that a person being justifiably angry about something has vendictiveness and revenge seeking attatched to it. In all honesty, it’s a natural part of processing the pain of betrayal. He is forgiving everyone way too quickly and easily for him to have worked through everything sufficiently on an emotional level....that is what makes him weak, it looks as if he is just giving in. Justin shouldn’t have to second guess what he’s doing going forward in regards to his family life. Unsurprisingly, I disagree with the notion that it was too soon for Justin to be alone with the boys. Brian may have had more time to get used to the idea of being a father, but no one is really prepared to be a parent. Some people have one day, some have hours....literally, but you make changes as you go. Justin could have easily given the boys his room and he could have taken the couch for a couple of days. Now as for Jennifer and Debbie....more bullshit selfish excuses. Sorry but nothing is going to redeem them in my eyes in this verse. Are any of them going to ever be held accountable for their behavior? And no, self guilt and them knowing what they have done doesn’t count.....they need real consequences. You say the easy thing is to be angry and that forgiveness is the hard fight, but being angry isn’t easy....not easy at all.
Author's Response:
I think we're never going to agree on these characters and that's okay for me - I didn't write this story to convince people that one way of dealing with pain is better than another. This is just my version of a story that came to my mind when I heard a song a long time ago and my muse went with it ;) This is how my brain thought these characters would deal with that story, but of course it's very subjective and said before: My opinion and my version.
People are very welcome to disgree and I love hearing other point of views and opinions. It makes me think, it makes me question myself, my opinions and it gets my grey cells going. So thanks for that :)
To me Justin is standing up for himself. He is the one who is deciding where the whole family is going to move. What direction they're gonna go. He is the one who finally has a choice and he is making that choice. It might not be a choice some readers agree with, but it's the choice that to him seems right and that to him seems like the only way he can find happiness and move on.
He made a conscious choice not to stay rooted in the past. He made a conscious choice that he wanted to move on and didn't want to stay rooted in a past he can't change anyway and now he's making the decisions that he thinks will make him happy in the long run. And in the process he's showing all the people that have hurt and betrayed him that he can do so without hurting them in return. That decisions can be made together!
How do you want them to be held accountable? What do you want Justin to do? Please, I am really interested to hear what readers who think Justin is being weak here would like him to do. So far I've only heard generic statements like him holding them accountable, but what should he do specifically that would make you see him as strong? Should he have taken Brian to court? Should he have uprooted his son from the only home he has ever known? Should he have forbidden his mother and Debbie from ever seeing their grandson again?
I am sorry, but those things went through my mind and all of them seemed totally pointless and also slightly stupid to me. It would have only made Justin sink to the same level Brian and his mom and Debbie are on, but to me it would make no sense for him to do the same they've been doing to him when he knows how much it has hurt him. Why would he hurt them? Because he can? Because he has the power to do so? Because he has the right to do so?
I am sorry to say that that is not a line of thinking I can follow at all :( But like I said, I do appreciate you taking the time and sharing your opinions, because they do make me think about these things and they do make me question the choices I have made as a writer, but also as a human being in my life.
So thanks for that and for sticking with this story even though you disagree with the character's behaviour :)
Maybe one day we will finally agree on something - who knows? ;)
More will be up soon!
Date: Aug 06, 2018 1:01 am Title: Chapter 16
I liked how Justin asserted his fatherhood in getting Gus to bed and Gus didn't question it. Gus is one smart little boy. Do away with the bullshit and get right to the point. Let the anger go, be silly, be happy. Out of the mouth of babes as the cliche goes.
Big step in repairing their relationship.
Jennifer is definitely right about Justin never being like Craig. Never ever will he be like Craig.
Author's Response:
Yes, Gus is one smart little boy. Maybe even too smart for his own age ;)
No, he could never be like Craig, but I guess getting thrown into fatherhood from one day to the next without any time to prepare for it might make you doubt yourself and might wake some demons inside you :(
Poor Justin and the boys really do deserve some happiness after all this :)
Date: Aug 06, 2018 12:03 am Title: Chapter 17
Great chapter. wow, everyone has to deal with it in their own way. Great writing.
Author's Response:
Awwww, thank you :)
Lets hope that they will all find a way to move on together and can be a family one day - at least Justin and the boys would deserve it :)
Date: Aug 05, 2018 10:10 pm Title: Chapter 17
Once more a hard chapter to read: Debbie has a lot to be forgiven for. At least, she stopped blaming others.
The house hunting could be fun for the boys.
Author's Response:
Lets hope it will get easier from now on - Justin and the boys would deserve it! :)
Debbie has learned a lot about herself and her little family in recent years. As she told Justin: A lot has happened and knowing that her son was part in a kidnapping ploy to take away Brian's and Justin's son... that must have made her face some uncomfortable truths about him :/
Oh, most definitely! They are beyond excited :)
Date: Aug 05, 2018 10:01 pm Title: Chapter 16
You replied:
"I don't believe in revenge and I don't have an ounce of vindictiveness in me."
But I'm not asking about revenge or vindictiveness. I'm asking about accountability. Holding someone accountable for their behavior is not vengeful or vindictive. It's simply demanding that others own their behaviors and make reparations to those they've injured. It is the right thing to do. It is the right thing to teach our children. It is the right thing to do for our society. It is why we have laws and social mores. I don't share your views that personal happiness is dependent upon an absolute absence of anger or an absolute need for forgiveness. Anger can be a righteous emotion and we have that emotive ability for a reason - it can be a valid emotional response on our own behalf or the behalf of others. I *will* be angry at the murderer, the rapist, the kidnapper, the racist, the homophobe, and I will feel no shame in that anger. It drives me to hold them accountable for their actions.
Children do not learn accountability by never seeing it put into practice, by never seeing their parents - their first teachers - demand respect and fairness for themselves when others have grossly betrayed them. They do not learn to stand up for others by never seeing someone stand up for themselves. By seeing our parents demand respect for themselves from other adults, kids learn how to demand it for themselves. If they don't see their foundational teachers do so, how will they learn those things? How can they learn to stand up for others if they never learn to stand up for themselves?
"I am very curious to see if we will ever manage to get on the same page about these characters :)"
LOL. I doubt it. We have very different world-views, I think. (Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the story, however.) I just think about who Rage is, what it was based on, and the words of Brian as he sat in Justin's living room with the 'rents. He was not confused at all that there *are* indeed lines that are impossible to uncross once they've been crossed. Expecting Justin to dilute himself, to deny his own emotional needs and his psychological system for the "sake of the family" was, in Brian's own words, hate, not love.
Thanks for letting me philosophize about this story without taking offense. I honestly don't mean to offend at all. Just trying to wrap my head around the viewpoint. And everybody else? Just skip over all my shit here. I'm (perhaps unfortunately) one of those wordy types who love to argue the philosophy of a point until everyone else in the room yells at me to shut up or pulls out the duct tape for my mouth! Yes, that has actually happened. LOLOL
Author's Response:
As for accountability: What would you like Justin to do? Take Brian to court? Never speak to his mom and Debbie again? What good would that do for anyone involved?
He has shown them all how hurt he has been by their actions and they have seen the pain they have caused him and as Jennifer said, that is something they will all have to live with until the end of their days. They know what they have done and they will have to live with that guilt. They will have to live with the knowledge that they have taken something valuable away from Justin that he will never get back.
Gus and Luke know that Brian has done something bad to Justin and at least Gus is fully aware of Justin's pain and how hard it is for him to be around the other adults. Gus sees how tense the interactions between Justin and Brian and Justin and Jennifer are and knows it's because they have done something bad to Justin.
As for your mention of rapists, kidnappers, racists, homophobes, etc. I do get that you're angry at them. I do understand people who are, but when I hear stories about those crimes or I meet racists and homophobes, my biggest interest is trying to understand these people. How did they turn into the people they are now? What made them have the opinions they do? For me there is always the need to understand. And that always rates higher than anger... And yes, I have met racists and homophobes firsthand as I work with immigration/refugee charities and LGBT charities. For me I don't feel anger when I encounter these people, I feel pity for how narrowminded they are and feel a need to understand how they turned into who they are. How they could go through the same school system I went through, could learn the same things I have learned and take away such different lessons from it.
As you said - we have very different world views. And that is fine - as I've said before: Life would be so boring if we all thought the same and agreed on everything. This diversity makes life interesting :)
I for one love reading your thoughts as they give me a completely different point of view to my own and make me think a lot about myself, my views and the characters in this story. So thank you for getting my grey cells going :D I am absolutely not taking any offense and hope you don't either when you get my replies. As said - I love that you get my brain cells going and make me think :)
So don't worry about me getting out the duct tape anytime soon ;)
[Report This]Date: Aug 05, 2018 9:17 pm Title: Chapter 17
Deb's excuse doesn't ring true. She just found it easier to do nothing. I think she was mad because Justin went to NY and wanted to punish him.
Author's Response:
Maybe... but it wouldn't be the first time Debbie just chose the easy way :(
More will be up soon!
[Report This]Date: Aug 05, 2018 8:48 pm Title: Chapter 17
Jennifer took Justin house hunting and didn't consider Luke just that it had the perfect studio space.
WTF?????!!!!!!!!!
All this chapter tells me is that NO ONE PLANNED ON TELLING JUSTIN ABOUT LUKE OR GUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just another excuse so Justin can be the adult and everyone can move on with total forgiveness.
Justin isn't Danny he didn't need the accolades or time to find himself he knew who he was from the first time he set foot on Liberty Avenue.
Deb's mistakes has nothing to do with Justin Brian was an A-Hole to keep this from Justin and everyone else was too weak to stop him from making this momentous mistake.
He broke Justin's heart, destroyed his trust might aswell have killed him like Chris Hobbs tried to do.
Justin may be in control now but no one is really taking it seriously they just keep expecting him to be as selfish and self-absorbed as Michael, Lindsay and Melanie.
Its like they forgot who Justin is and are just expecting to deal with the doe-eyed seventeen year old they met before, while also forgetting that Justin was stronger and smarter than all of them at seventeen.
I don't know where they get Justin is this evil controlling monster from but they all need to stop projecting others misdeeds onto Justin.
Cause It Ain't Fair and It Isn't Right!!!!!!
Author's Response:
I have to admit that sadly you have lost me with this comment. Who sees Justin as the evil controlling monster? If anything, some people might see Brian like that, but Justin? I don't think any character in this story would see him like that. At least I don't know where they would have gotten the idea from...
As for the house hunting, I am sure it would have been fun if she had pushed Justin towards houses with more guest rooms and every time he had asked: Mom, why would I need at least two guest rooms? She would have been like: You'll find out soon... Soon...
As for no one planning to tell Justin: That is the question. Would someone have told him if he had not shown up at Britin?
I have to admit that I do take slight offense to the comparison with Chris Hobbs. What Chris Hobbs did was a vicious attempt to kill someone. Brian, even though misguided and totally wrong, thought he had Justin's best interests at heart and thought he was doing the right thing at a huge sacrifice to himself. He gave up the love of his life because he felt he needed to do this for Justin's career, a career he was under the impression Justin wanted because Justin went as far as to agree to cancel the wedding and move away to New York to get that career. I am not saying Brian was right (God knows, he wasn't!), but Brian did have good intentions, no matter how misguided. What Chris Hobbs did had nothing to do with good intentions, sacrifice or love. It was pure hatred and vicious! Brian didn't try to kill Justin, if anything he wanted to give Justin the life he thought he wanted and deserved. Misguided and wrong? Absolutely!
Who is expecting Justin to be as selfish as Michael and Lindsay? If anything, I think they're all surprised by him not being selfish at all and they all feel very lucky that he would even consider giving them another chance to be a part of his life.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something here and if I do, I am sorry :(
Date: Aug 03, 2018 2:33 pm Title: Chapter 16
Seriously you can’t seem to allow Justin his anger you just feel a need to turn him into a pod person who allows himself to be walked all over. There is no need to forgive everyone Justin no longer needs a relationship with Mommy. You unfortunately felt this forgive and forget vibe and went with it, thus ruining Justin the anger gave you something to work with this just puts Brian and Justin on a path to nowhere unless you have them fucking again and get Brian pregnant again to the total destruction of your story though I see you going for a happy ending when this story would be so much better without one...
Author's Response:
Most people feel the need for a relationship with their mother their whole life - it's not about needing our mothers in our lives, it's about wanting them in our lives and despite the pain and betrayal, Justin does love his mother and wants to find a way for her to be a part of his life. Because he loves her!
Brian and Justin fucking and Brian getting pregnant again? Haha... okay... uhm, no. Not going to happen!
As for the happy ending - we have barely reached the halfway point of the story. There is still a lot to happen before we get to the ending and will be able to judge if we like it or not ;)
Thanks for your comment! More will be up soon!
Date: Aug 02, 2018 2:31 pm Title: Chapter 16
I have to agree with NoChaser here. Why was Justin trying to sooth Jennifer’s feelings? Again I ask where is all this strength he’s supposed to have? It seems that all he is doing is supplying his abusers with excuses for their behavior. He has got to put his foot down at some point, and stop trying to move forward based on lies. Damn it he had the opportunity to be completely honest with Gus and he wasn’t. Gus is 10....not 2 he is at an age where he can handle a little straight talk. Justin needs to man up and quick.
Author's Response:
Justin was trying to sooth her because she's his mom and despite everything he loves her. Despite all the pain and betrayal, he loves his mother and needs her in his life and he doesn't like seeing her like that.
Nobody likes to see people they love in pain and Justin is no different there.
And the very act of trying to sooth Jennifer, of trying to move forward from the pain she has caused him, of accepting that he wants her to be a part of his life and him being willing to give her a chance to be in his life - that is strength!
Justin could have chosen the easy option and could have chosen to never speak to his mother, Brian or Debbie ever again - but what good would that have done? The pain would have festered inside him and then? What? Where would that have let him?
As for Gus: Yes, he's ten, not two, but that doesn't mean that a boy that has already been traumatised by the actions of his parents (Lindsay being in prison, him living with Brian, an ugly custody battle between his parents) needs to be traumatised any further. Justin has been honest with him: Gus knows that it was Brian and Jennifer who have caused Justin pain. Gus knows that Justin is struggling with that pain and how to deal with Brian and Jennifer and that is enough for him to know at this point. Will he and Luke never find out what really happened? Of course they will! But not now when they're still this young... too young.
Thanks for your comment - I really appreciate you sharing your point of view :)
Date: Aug 02, 2018 1:23 pm Title: Chapter 16
Hi again! I've to repeat myself... Fantastic writing-style, very exciting and you choosed a damned difficult topic! It makes us think about life itself, about guilt, forgiveness and according to the many different reviews, there are many different views about it. But that alone is great. There is no wrong or right, no black or white, there are many different colours and everyone has to choose how to spend the time we are given here, and how to behave.
So, this is my opinion. I think it's great, that you choose Gus to help Justin through this very painful and sensitive moment. He lets Justin see what's important in a way maybe only children are able to. We can learn so much by looking at and listening to our children. I know, also children can be cruel and all that stuff, but most of the time they are still innocent and see the world in a different way. "You want to be happy - so be happy" I know it's not as easy as it sounds but I think it's the right direction. And just because Brian and others like Jennifer have chosen a wrong path and done a terrible mistake, Justin doesn't have to do that too. I don't envy Justin, because he has all the cards in his hands, he has to decide which way to go, also in which direction all their lifes will go. Of course, he could at least claim Luke, fight Brian, reduce contact with Brian, Jennifer, and everyone else, but what would happen? There would be just fights and hate... First and foremost, this behavior would harm the children. Luke and Gus might not be able to live together anymore. And even the adults wouldn't find peace and by that I mean also Justin. He wouldn't be happy and later they would have children who would have issues themselves. And yeah, this is not Justin's fault. I blame all of them except Justin. But he's the only one now who can decide... Forgiveness, also to find own happiness, is a difficult topic, and I see that very ambiguously myself... I don't know if anyone here knows the film "The Shack". I've seen this movie with a friend and we had long discussions after it. At first the film got me really excited in a negative way. I'm not religious and to imagine to forgive the murderer of my child... I continue to find it too much, but still I think - even while reading your story - again and again to this movie, so it couldn't be that bad, right? I don't envy Justin and I don't want to get stuck in his skin and decide, but he's not weak at all. I rather admire him for his incredible strength and foresight. He could opt for the simpler way and surrender to his grief and seek revenge, but in the long run, nobody would benefit from that. And so he chooses the harder way, but in the end someday everyone will be happy again. Because I can't imagine that Brian and Jennifer were happy in those years, their guilt must have been almost unbearable. The Jennifer we met in this chapter also shows at least deep regret. That's what I missed about the Jennifer, who said she could treat Justin like a pubescent boy. So yes, if Justin is able to try to forgive his mother, I can try too. :-)
It's nice to see that Justin can now also find some comfort and encouragement from his mother. I already wrote it in the previous review. He finds himself suddenly in a completely new role as a father and is naturally afraid of doing something wrong here.
Great chapter! Another little step in the right direction. I'm happy for Justin and also for Luke and Gus! Warmest regards!
Author's Response:
Yeah, I don't make life easy for myself as a writer. Angst means angst to me and I do dive in fully ;) And yes, I am amazed by all the different reviews and all the different experiences people are pulling from when replying on this story. As you mentioned: There is no right or wrong, there is no black or white and it is really fascinating for me to read all these different points of views. I have never expected to reach people like that and I feel very flattered :)
Children have an innocence and a view at life about them that has always impressed me in all the years I have worked with them. I think it's sad that we lose that the older we get and I think it's sad that we are sometimes making life so hard on ourselves. But I guess that's what happens when we experience pain, betrayal and bad things ourselves. They harden our emotions and we start putting up walls to protect ourselves that children just don't need because they don't know pain like that yet.
I am glad that you picked up on Justin holding all the cards - he had the choice to decide for all of them where they would be headed and he tried to make the best choice for everyone involved. Not a choice that would have been easy for him, but a choice he believes is best for all of them. Unlike them, he did consider their feelings, unlike them he looked at what other people wanted and didn't just make the choice that suited his needs best. And yes, I agree: If he had let his pain and anger win, there would have only been losers. The children would have suffered and Justin himself couldn't have found happiness either that way.
Yes, I know "The Shack" and have seen it as well. I have to agree, it was "too much" for me in some ways, but just like with you, it really made me think and it made me question a lot of things about myself. About what I would have done. I like stories (books, movies) that make me question my own actions and reactions. I am a religious person, but not in the way of organized religion and while I do believe in morals and values like forgiveness and tolerance and the likes, I believe that we should forgive for our own good, not because a book or a god in the sky tells us to. I honestly believe that forgiveness allows us to move forward and makes us better people and anger, while sometimes the easier option, doesn't do anyone any good. Anger has never solved anything in this world and I don't see much point in being angry at someone. Of course I do get angry (I am not Jesus or Buddha!), but then I get annoyed at myself for having spent that energy on anger when I could have spent it on something more worthwhile. I am a very twisted person ;)
Yes, hopefully this was another step in the right direction and will help them all to move forward. Justin and the boys deserve it! They are long overdue for some real happiness :)
Thank you so much for your comment - I really appreciate it! More will be up later :)
Date: Aug 02, 2018 3:44 am Title: Chapter 16
Key chapter for Justin and Jennifer. Gus feels the pain around him and needs more reassurance.
Author's Response:
Definitely - hopefully they can also move on now. Justin would deserve it!
Yes, poor Gus notices what is going on and really needs reassurance. Hopefully Brian and Justin will realise that!
[Report This]Date: Aug 02, 2018 1:39 am Title: Chapter 16
Out of the mouth of babes.
Author's Response:
True - sometimes children know best :)
Date: Aug 02, 2018 12:19 am Title: Chapter 16
I wasn't sure if I would comment any more, yet here I am. I was a philosophy/comparative religion major in college and grad school. In my Buddism class, my professor, a Buddist monk named Chandima, despaired that I could ever understand eastern thinking. I remember telling him that I simply could not find a way to get across the river to get the boat on the other side of the river that would help me cross the river in the first place. That's kind of the way I feel here. I can't wrap my head around Justin as the Dalai Lama. Because that's the level of forgiveness that would be required here, in my opinion. And I am fully steeped in western logic, I'm afraid.
I'm sorry, but there just isn't enough forgiveness in me to be able to relate to Justin here. Perhaps that's a flaw in my own character. I prefer to think it's valuing myself as at least an equal to those who've hurt me. If it was *one* person who had betrayed Justin, I could perhaps understand somewhat. But this was a collective assault on Justin's rights and *he's* assuaging his attackers! If Molly fell in love with Chris Hobbs and the family rallied around him, keeping it quiet from Justin while giving Chris shelter and love and warmth, blindsiding Justin later to 'forgive' for the sake of the kids' comfort, would *that* be too far? I'm guess I'm still trying to find a measuring stick in this somewhere.
Seriously, Jennifer should be thanking her lucky stars that Justin's still on speaking terms with her. Her actions, above every one else - even Brian - are abysmally unforgivable. I can think of few worse betrayals by a mother toward her own child. And I still just can't see Justin as the Dalai Lama.
Author's Response:
I am definitely steeped in Western logic as well - all the way. Yet I think that forgiveness and happiness are very essential parts of human life. Anger and vindictiveness? Not that much. I am not a person that believes in anger at all. Yes, I do get angry and then I get angry at myself for getting angry to begin with - it's very twisted ;) I don't believe in revenge and I don't have an ounce of vindictiveness in me. Why? Because I don't see any point in it. Nothing good comes from those emotions. They only cost energy and hurt, but they don't do anything good for ourselves while forgiveness can actually help us move forward to a better place.
Maybe that's a flaw in my character, who knows? But so far I can say that it has worked very well for my life and I live a very happy life, so I can't find any fault yet. Maybe I was just lucky, maybe it will change in the future. Who knows? We never know what life holds... To me it just shows that everyone is different and every person has different priorities in life and different things they focus their energy on. Fair enough :)
As for Jennifer: Justin loves his mother. In the end it came down to the question: Did he want to lose her? Did he want to cut her out of his life forever? And despite all the pain and hurt and her betrayal, there is just too much love for her for Justin to not try to forgive her. Does that excuse what she did? In no way!
More will be up soon! If you continue reading (which I hope you will!), I am very curious to see if we will ever manage to get on the same page about these characters :)
I do appreciate your comments and you taking the time to leave them. Thank you so much for always making me think and second guess myself and what I have written :D
Date: Aug 02, 2018 12:18 am Title: Chapter 16
Great chapter. Step by step. Hoping they can overcome all the pain. Such a good story and love the Pgh. part also.
Author's Response:
Awwww, thank you so much :) I am glad you're enjoying the stories!
It won't be easy, but maybe they all might just make it :)
Date: Jul 31, 2018 3:06 pm Title: Chapter 15
Okay, so I waited a bit before I wanted to post a review....and I am sorry but I just don’t see the strength the some think Justin is showing. What stuck out to me was Justin silently asking for Jennifer’s permission to read his own son a bedtime story. At this point the theories of insecurities and not wanting to upset some delicate balance that the grandmas have going just don’t fly with me. This is why Justin NEEDED that time alone with the boys because the more he lets things continue on, the more comfortable and justified the others are going to feel about what they have done. I said it before and I’ll say it again, Justin is allowing himself to remain a victim instead of telling everyone that he is TRULY done hearing their bullshit excuses and doing things to make it easier for them while he continues to suffer. I guess the problem for me is that I can’t suspend reality enough to see the situation you’re presenting playing out this way. All the passive aggressive placating that is going on is unreal and really shouldn’t be entertained. I’m not even going to start in on Jennifer and her selfish ass. Bottom line is she spouted a bunch of bullshit that left her looking like she didn’t give one single fuck about her son.....pathetic absolutely pathetic.
Author's Response:
We're never going to agree on Justin's character in this story ;)
I am not going into why he's the strongest character in this story for me again, but I will say that for me it's totally understandable that he would feel insecure and scared about having Luke and Gus stay at his place. He has been thrown into the role of being a father to two boys from one day to the other without any time to prepare. Brian had the 6 months between finding out that he was pregnant and Luke being born to get used to the idea of being a father. Justin showed up at Britin and from one day to the other found himself as a father of two... That needs time adjusting to.
As simple as it is: Justin was just not ready to have the boys stay at his place. If that makes him weak, then he is weak. To me it makes him human and normal. I would be more concerned if he wouldn't feel insecure and wouldn't be scared of suddenly being responsible for two little boys.
As for Jennifer - yes, she was definitely selfish. No doubt about that!
Thanks for your comment!
Date: Jul 31, 2018 2:24 pm Title: Chapter 15
Hi again! That's funny, you're also from Germany? Where do you come from? Yeah, I'm from Berlin, I was born here and still live here. Hej, then I could write my reviews in German :-) , my English is so terrible... Sadly, there was a weather warning on Saturday and at 8 pm the storm started. The police had to cancel the closing event for security reasons. It was sooo sad! I can understand your joy dancing to "Chiquitita" on such an occasion! There are so many beautiful scenes of those two, but this scene at justin's first Pride is one of my many favourite ones, because on one hand Justin could let Brian be Brian, letting him go, telling him to have fun and on the other hand Brian for once decided against this kind of fun and actually just choosed Justin. And their dance, it was so beautiful and cute. And everytime I hear this song (and my son is a big Abba-Fan :-) ), it reminds me of this scene!
Now, this chapter. I love this scenes between Justin and Luke. Luke is just so adorable (no wonder, being a combination of Brian and Justin) and it's beautiful to see that they've already bonded so well. I'm so happy for Justin. Some readers may again see his behavior as weak but in my opinion, it's not weakness, but just a normal insecurity. He's not sure how do deal with his mother which on one hand he loves so much and on the other hand he feels so hurt by her. He also seems to be a little insecure being alone with Gus and Luke. I can understand this also. I remember being so insecure with my first son, although I was the one being pregnant, I gave life to him, I've raised him since then. So, I can imagine that Justin's also a little afraid doing something wrong. The more beautiful is the reaction of Luke. That he tells Justin, that he wants to spend more time at justin's home more often, that he wants to spend more and more time with him. I could imagine, that there soon comes the question to spend also nights with his Papa...
What can I say... I'm really sooo disappointed by Jennifer. I really believed that there had to be more or other reasons for her silence. Are there really no other reasons than this threat by Brian? Maybe I'm wrong to judge her, but for me there's such a big diffenrece between Jennifer's and Brian's behavior. With Brian, I see and understand where it came from, but Jennifer... I judged her differently, I expected more from her, I saw her as a strong woman. But, who knows, so far, your story hold some surprises...
At the end of the chapter, I nearly expected Luke to show up again. I could well imagine that he would wake up from the conversation between the two and listen to them unnoticed and even if he is only five, hearing certain things and understands... But maybe it's good - at least for him - that he doesn't hear the whole truth through a quarrel between his grandma and his Papa... It's so exciting and I'm looking forward to the next chapter! Warmest regards!!!
Author's Response:
Ja, ich bin auch deutsch. Ich komme aus der Ecke Osnabrück und habe bis vor fünf Jahren in Osnabrück gewohnt. Dann hat mich das Irland-Fieber gepackt und ich bin auf die grüne Insel ausgewandert :) Ich bin auch regelmäßig in Berlin, meistens für die Berlinale. Eine echt schöne Stadt :) Und dein Englisch ist super - absolut!
Switching back ;) Yeah, the end of that Pride is one of my all-time favourite Brian/Justin moments. For once Brian did the right thing and showed Justin that he was important to him :D
As for the story, Justin has basically been thrown into the role of being a father. He had no time to prepare, he had no time to even think if he wanted this or not (and we know, he wanted it, but when it finally happens that is still a completely different thing) and then from one day to the other he finds himself with a 5-year old son (and a ten year old if we add Gus to the mix). To me it's perfectly understandable that he would feel insecure about his new role. Every new parent does and yes, that's mostly when dealing with newborns, but Justin never got to experience that stage and this time with Luke and Gus now are his first steps of being a real father. Poor guy deserves to be cut some slack for feeling scared and insecure and maybe slightly overwhelmed by everything :(
The question of spending nights at Justin's place will come sooner than Justin might expect;)
As for Jennifer: Maybe there were other reasons she's not willing to admit yet. Maybe there were other reasons she's not even realising herself yet and she's just hiding behind Brian's threat of disappearing with the baby. We'll have to wait and see...
Luke didn't hear them - but someone else did and that someone understood :(
Thanks for your great comment - I love reading your thoughts!
[Report This]Date: Jul 30, 2018 3:51 pm Title: Chapter 15
It's nice that Justin had a fun day with Luke and Gus. Jennifer made the wrong choice and it would serve her right if Justin took the kids and just went off like she thought Brian would do.
Author's Response:
Yes, the fun day for Justin and the boys was really needed and they all deserved it!
As for Jennifer - yes, she would deserve that and much worse, but Justin would never do that... He is too good for that!
Date: Jul 30, 2018 2:37 pm Title: Chapter 15
Justin is right: he is the father, Brian couldn't have been able to get away with Luke. Furthermore, Jennifer had 9 months to think and get some legal advice. She has no excuse.
Great moments with Luke and Gus, then Luke and Justin. It lessens the huge pain he must feel being near his mother.
Author's Response:
No, she doesn't :(
Justin and the boys deserve some happiness and this happy afternoon was needed! And yes, Justin sure draws strength from those two boys. They are helping him more than they know :)
Date: Jul 30, 2018 3:05 am Title: Chapter 15
A conversation that solved nothing. At least he could voice his pain and get some of it off his chest. It's a step in the right direction to getting all his anger out.
I'm happy for Justin and the boys. They had a great afternoon. Don't know how Brian will feel about the new painting though.
Author's Response:
Yes, Justin and the boys deserved a good time. As for the painting... we'll see what Brian's reaction will be...
More will be up later today :)
Date: Jul 30, 2018 1:20 am Title: Chapter 15
Jennifer is full of BS. What is Brian the CIA and would know if Jennifer told Justin to come home. No way. She could have told him not to tell Brian and paid for him to come home and then hid him at her house when Brian was bringing Luke over. Also when Lindsay and Michael tried to kidnap Luke brian could have used Justin's help then to prove who both fathers were. You know, I love a good AU story, but in the end this is about QAF and B/J's love story. At least in my opinion. Most people look at tags in the fanfics to decide if a certain story is their "cup of tea". You have Brian and Justin tagged as a pairing and angst with a happy ending. I'm all for angst as long as I know they will be happy AND together in the end. However, you have eluded on some comments that there will be a "happy" ending just that what constitutes one happy ending isn't someone else's. As a writer you can and should certainly write whatever you want to write. BUT as a reader we are given the same choice. That is why there are tags and/or a writer can put a note in the summary to explain. IMO I can't help but feel deceived but the Tags. B/J are not a pairing in this story and your references to happy endings hint that they will not be together either. I don't know how they could ever be together in this universe. I have certainly read many stories post 513 about the "Kinney cliff" for Justin's career, but they were believable and brian was redeemable. Maybe if it wasn't almost 6 years and EVERYONE except Emmett betrayed Justin it would be more believable.
I'm not trying to criticize at all. Your writing is superb! I know from reading the comments that others agree with me. Had I had an idea what this really about with the tags or an author's note in the beginning, I never would have read this story. I'm sorry if I am sounding rude and mean. I've been burned so many times in other stories that I invested a lot of time in, so I'm really careful to lot at tags first. As I said please write what you want, just please place a warning in the beginning and be careful of the tags. I can't remember ANY stories that I have read that have angst with a happy ending NOT having brian and Justin together at the end and happy together.
Also, as so many others have said, Justin can be as mature as an 80 year old man and not want to hurt the kids, BUT that is not how he comes across here at all. Everyone has excuses, no REAL apologies, and above all NO CONSEQUENCES!!! Justin seems very weak and taking all of the blame in this story. Luke and Gus are old enough to understand certain things. Justin does not have to be around Brian all that time at Britin. He can be cordial to brian in front of the kids, but that's it. He can go out and buy clothes and toys etc for his house. He has had the time now. I don't care if his house was not meant for kids. Any house can be rearranged to accommodate. Im sorry it is just too unrealistic for the characters.
As much as I love your writing, I think I am going to have to abandon this story like others have. Good luck and please keep writing, maybe just please consider a warning on future stories.
Author's Response:
Hi, thanks for your comments - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I do accept that people will have different opinions from mine. That's life and that's what makes life so interesting :)
As for the tags: The Brian/Justin tag and the Angst with Happy Ending tag were chosen for good reason! This is a Brian/Justin story and yes, there will be a Happy Ending! I have not said anything about them not ending up together and I am aware of what those tags mean. Again - chosen for a good reason! What I was refering to concerning the Happy Ending is that not everyone will want them to have a happy ending after what Brian did and not everyone might like the happy ending I have chosen for them. After what they have been through, people might expect different things and not everyone might be happy with the happy ending this story will have. Some people might be, others might not. But having said that: I AM aware of what Happy Ending in a fandom means and that's why the tag was chosen ;)
As for anything else - there is always the option of contacting an author. Several people have chosen that option and contacted me with questions about the story before starting to read it. I have answered to all those questions and comments and would have answered your questions as well. What I will not do and will never ever do is spoil a story in a public forum like this. While you might like to know where a story is going and want to know in advance what you're getting in for, many people don't want that and I don't want them to get accidentally spoiled by any comments I might leave here.
Once again, I can only go by my own experience, but when I go into a book store, I only have 3-5 sentences at the back of a book to get me interested. There are no warnings either about what might or might not happen to characters. I do appreciate that everyone is different, but for me that's the thrill of reading: You never know what might be coming your way!
So please, if you have any specific questions concerning the happy ending or where this story is going - I am more than happy to answer them outside of a public forum as I have done for several other readers as well :)
As for Justin being weak or not - I realise that some people will never agree with me as we have very different outlooks on life. For me he is the strongest character in this story and I stand by that. Being angry and ignoring people that have hurt you is the easy way - facing them and trying to move on from the hurt: That's the hard work. That's the painful thing to do.
I have mentioned before that I don't believe in revenge, vindictiveness or anything like that - to me it's just a waste of time. So yes, I can totally relate to Justin, but I do understand that other people can't. That's life :)
At this point we've barely reached the half-way point of the story, a lot is still going to happen before we make it to the end (where the tags will come true ;) ).
I am sorry to see you leave this story behind, but maybe it's for the best. The story is finished and I am not going to change Justin's view of things, so there probably isn't much hope for him in some people's eyes.
Having said all that: Thank you so much for all your comments and all the time you have spent on leaving them. I do appreciate that and loved reading your thoughts :)
[Report This]Date: Jul 29, 2018 11:29 pm Title: Chapter 15
Brian, Jennifer, Deb and Ted are all using Justin's Career as a crutch no one considered what Justin wanted because they are all Selfish People.
Justin was building a career in Pittsburgh he could've been successful and still have a family too.
All of them have excuses but no one is just willing to admit and say I'm Sorry, I Was Wrong, I Deserve Your Anger and So Much More.
They are all too busy trying to cover their own Asses!
Jennifer wants to congratulate Justin for his attempts at parenting and but she is forgetting that Justin could've had all this from the beginning if everyone had just thought about Him first.
Even after knowing that she has Royally Screwed Up her relationship with Justin she is still making excuses and taking Brian's side.
What is valid to you sounds like Bullshit to Justin who has lost nearly six years with his son and none of you Pillars of Truth Were Planning to Tell Justin He Had A Son!!!!!!!
Where were Jennifer's tears for Justin when Luke cried, smiled for the first time, walked, talked said Dada for the First time, had his first birthday, Christmas, New Year, Easter, Father's Day, 4th of July?
Where Her, Brian, Deb and Ted's Damn Tears Then???
What Good Is A Apology If You're The Only One Who Feels Good About It??
Author's Response:
The thing is that at least Brian thought the career was what Justin wanted. After all Justin had cancelled the wedding and had moved to New York. To Brian that was a clear indicator that Justin wanted the career.
I don't think Jennifer will ever forget that Justin could have had that from the very beginning - they all know what they did and that they will have to live with that for the rest of their days :( It doesn't excuse anything and they are all aware of that!
It's just a big mess for everyone involved and Justin is the innocent party in this mess :(
Thanks for your comment! I really appreciate it :D