Date: Mar 15, 2022 6:40 pm Title: Chapter 12
--He had probably taken Justin's biggest dream from him without giving Justin's feelings a second thought. What kind of asshole did that make him?--
The Michael and Lindsay kind of asshole. Nothing less. Brian tried to set the rules for what Justin "wanted" in life in the same way that Michael and Lindsay tried to set the rules for what Brian "wanted" in life. They even had the same motives - because it's what *they* would have wanted for Brian/Justin. Brian even kidnapped Justin's son (morally speaking) in order to make that a reality, just like Michael and Lindsay tried to do physically. Then, Brian even colluded with Jen/Deb/family to accomplish the "kidnapping" in the same way that Michael and Lindsay colluded to accomplish the physical kidnapping. Lord have mercy!
Yep, I'm reading this again, (for the umpteenth time LOL) and the parallels between Michael/Lindsay behavior and Brian behavior are still as obvious to me as on the first read. Craftily done, by the way. ;) But Brian wants Michael/Lindsay to burn in hell for *their* behavior and we see Justin forgiving Brian for basically the same behavior. I honestly can't reconcile that dichotomy.
Seriously, if I were in Justin's shoes, the anger would have gone on and on and on for years. That was one freaking hell of a betrayal by *everyone*.
I have to say, Moffel, this story has kept me thinking for years! Excellent! LOL
Roni
Author's Response:
Wow, thanks! That comment just made my day :)
I am glad that you're still enjoying the story.
To be fair, Brian wouldn't have forgiven himself either...It's a good thing that Justin is not Brian, or this would have been a very different story with a very different ending :(
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it :)
Date: Feb 02, 2019 1:17 pm Title: Chapter 12
never lked Linsdey, I would hate her but is emotion i do no want
Author's Response:
I never liked Lindsey either, which unfortunately for her, showed a lot in this story ;)
Date: Sep 27, 2018 9:25 am Title: Chapter 12
Brian is still trying to keep Luke to himself, he might not realize it but his "you don't have to worry about Lindsay and Michael" comment pissed me off. Lindsay and Michael tried to steal Justin's child and Brian wants to keep that to himself, no way. Maybe it's his way of trying not to think about the fact that he himself "stole" Justin's child from him.
Author's Response:
Or maybe it's not easy for Brian to talk about what was easily one of the most horrible days of his life... Maybe brushing Justin off like that was something Brian did because he couldn't deal with the memories of that day :( Who knows?
Date: Jul 21, 2018 10:04 pm Title: Chapter 12
Yikes! Well it is certainly all out there on the table now. Brian is actually hearing for the first time the cold hard facts as Justin sees, hears, and feels them. It seems he is even listening.
Now, if he accepts them, he has a lot of work to do to repair the damaage. It's clear they still love each other. Love clearly isn't enough sometimes. I'm hoping it will be for them in the future.
Good job, enjoyed this so much.
Author's Response:
I think this conversation was long overdue and maybe they should have had it years ago before Justin left for New York to figure out if that was really something he wanted or something he just thought Brian wanted him to do... It would certainly have saved them a lot of pain and heartbreak if they had just communicated more honestly back then :(
We'll see if Brian will accept his part in this and if he does, how he'll deal with the knowledge that instead of making Justin's biggest dream come true (a career in his mind), he really destroyed it and took it away from him by keeping his son a secret.
As for love - no, it isn't always enough, but like you said, maybe it might just be for them. We'll have to wait and see...
Thanks so much for your comment! More will be up soon :)
Date: Jul 20, 2018 3:38 pm Title: Chapter 12
The most awful kind of asshole, that's what you are Brian. U know this is probably where we should feel symphatetic to brian because he had to deal with the terrible two and everything else, but honestly i couldn't care less for him. Hopefully he feel as much pain as justin went through. Don't worry i'll like him back eventually, after he suffers a bit ;) (can't really hate one of the main character for ever right).
But i still want jen and deb smack down please!! I don't know about you,but debbie wasn't really my fav character in the series together with michael and lindsay. Never really cared much for jennifer though.
Can't wait to see how melanie is involve in all of this. And lindsay and michael, ughh!!
Author's Response:
Haha, I am not telling you how you "have" to feel about Brian - that's all up to you ;) Feel free to hate away all you want *lol*
I just thought it was important to see that the last five years haven't just been easy and happy for Brian either. That he also had his struggles and demons to fight with. Is that an excuse for what he did? No way! An easy attempt at getting some sympathy? Maybe :P
As for Jennifer and Debbie - something is definitely coming... They can't all avoid each other forever :(
We'll find out more about Melanie and how much she has known or not known and what happened to her...
Thanks for your comment! More will be up later :)
Date: Jul 20, 2018 1:49 pm Title: Chapter 12
Hi! Great and long chapter so it took some time to review. Again, I've so many thoughts in my mind... :-)
First of all. I want hug Justin. He’s so brave! Putting his own needs aside, thinking and worrying just about Luke, wanting the best for his son, asking for this talk, opening up, reflecting himself, being able to show his feelings and emotions (crying is not weak!)... And so on. He's so mature!
Lindsay and Michael - what should i say. I never really liked them in the show. I was a little bit shocked... Kidnapping... I haven't expected something so extreme, but they deserved to be in jail for trying to take Luke away from Brian. I ask myself what this had done to Brian's psyche... the two people who he considered some kind of best friends betrayed him... Hm, sounds somehow familiar... And it's really sad and a tragedy because he hadn't had to go through this alone if he only hadn't betrayed or considered what's best for his real best friend...
I think it's somehow funny, or not funny but so sad... Brian being disappointed by Justin that he had believed Lindsay's bullshit about Brian not wanting Justin to see Gus any longer. But at the same time believing that Justin was the one who cut Gus out of his life... And Justin also believed Lindsay although he maybe also should have knowns better. She played them well, I would say sadly, Justin is right... "When did we stop getting each other?”
Oh, it's great written. Now, I also understand Brian's anger better when they were at Deb's... In one moment of rightful anger Justin accused Brian to never wanting Luke in the first place... Just as Michael and Lindsay. Brian really needs some kind of help... betraying the one he loved the most in the worst kind of way... then being betrayed... hoping somewhere deep inside that Justin finds out about Luke through Gus...
And I think the real tragedy is that their whole discussion about who wanted whom to go, who agreed to whatever, both being afraid not being enough for one another and so on, just shows that they haven't been honest to one another, they haven't talked to one another about their needs and what they really want... Brian thinking Justin wanted this career, Justin thinking that he was less for Brian without a career, Brian thinking that he had to change completely for Justin and so on... Now, they talk, long overdued, after losing five years not only with one another but together with their son! But better now than never. I'm glad that Brian finally realized he was doing so wrong. But has he already realized what he did with it, what he took from Luke, Gus and Justin and himself with it, what they had irrevocably lost? He, who wanted to give his "prince" everything, who wanted Justin to have it all, has taken away the one thing, Justin truely only ever wanted. I'm still waiting for some kind of breakdown :-) But I'm also still hoping that they slowly will find their way from here together. It was a good start and I'm curious what Brian will do. He can't go on like this. Looking forward and warmest regards!!!
Author's Response:
Yes, I agree about Justin being brave and mature - to me he's the strongest character in this story! He could have just drowned in his pain and anger at Brian and could have just decided to never talk to him again and be Luke's parent as per a custody agreement, but he chose the hard way which actually meant opening himself up to more pain by trying to find a way to deal with all the people that have hurt him, because he knows they're important figures in his son's life. That takes guts!
Welcome to the club - I have never been a big fan of Lindsay and Michael on the show and they have always annoyed the hell out of me. It was an easy choice to make them into villains ;) As for how this kidnapping has affected Brian - we will definitely find out that it hasn't left him cold and unaffected. This is also one of the things that will be dealt with in much more detail in Back for Good - The Pittsburgh Years.
As for Justin believing Lindsay: At least she was offering him something. Even if it was only lies and betrayal - that was more than he had gotten from Brian who had just stopped talking to him from one day to the other :(
I am glad you picked up on Brian's anger at Debbie's when Justin refered to him being the Stud and that being all he has ever cared about. Justin said exactly the same thing Michael and Lindsay have always said and that has definitely hit a nerve with Brian at the time.
As for Brian needing help - that's definitely something that will come up again over the course of the story and some people might be surprised what they'll find out then ;) As for a breakdown... we'll have to wait and see how Brian will deal with this new knowledge that he took away Justin's biggest dream in life when really he only ever wanted to give him all he thought "his prince" deserved in life which for him at the time was a big career. Talk about a plan going terribly wrong :(
As for the talk being long overdue: I won't lie, I have never liked the ending on the show. I have never been happy with Justin leaving like that when just an episode before he was so adamant in telling Lindsay that Brian was his chance of a lifetime and not New York. To me it was really disappointing and didn't make a lot of sense at the time... I have always felt like there should have been more honest conversations between those two, but obviously the focus of the show lay somewhere else ;)
Thank you sooooo much for your amazing comment :D Each and every time I am impressed by your understanding of these characters and this story and I am always eagerly awaiting your comments as they also give me so much to think about - thanks for that :)
Date: Jul 19, 2018 11:40 am Title: Chapter 12
Well this chapter is something. i would like to have some empathy for Brian and what he have been going through but i really can't. at least now he know he did something really hard to forgive, now i want to see what he will do???
will he still play the "its was for your best" card or atone for what he did and how ???
Micheal and lindsay the incredible duo. Honestly i don't even want to hear about them. i have never like them and never will.
However this chapter was really great and i would like read more.
looking forward for the next chapter
Author's Response:
Yes, it will be interesting to see how Brian will deal with the guilt now that he's slowly starting to understand how wrong he has been in his decision to keep Justin out of Luke's life :(
Never liked Michael and Lindsay either, so it was really easy for me to give them the villain roles here ;)
I am glad you liked the chapter :) More will be up soon!
Date: Jul 19, 2018 7:49 am Title: Chapter 12
Wow! Totally awesome chapter. Loved all the details. Is this all we will hear about the gruesome twosome?
Author's Response:
I am glad you liked the chapter :)
We will hear more about them and also about Melanie. But the whole abduction and what led to it will be covered in complete detail in Back for Good - The Pittsburgh Years. It will be mentioned in Back for Good again, but for more depth and detail The Pittsburgh Years it is ;)
More will be up soon!
Date: Jul 19, 2018 4:05 am Title: Chapter 12
Thank you! I was hoping for a minute that Justin wasn't backing down from feeling betrayed and you didn't let me down! Brian finally realizing he did wrong is great! I still want Jen and Deb to suffer though. They were even more wrong to not tell Justin. Thank you for updating and can't wait for more!
Author's Response:
We'll see about Jennifer and Debbie soon...
As for Brian - he is slowly starting to realise how wrong he has been and it will be interesting to see how he will deal with that knowledge. So far he has always told himself he had done what was best for Justin, but now he can't justify his actions like that anymore...
More will be up soon!
Date: Jul 19, 2018 3:38 am Title: Chapter 12
A long due discussion and some back story: very interesting chapter.
Author's Response:
Yes, this conversation was long overdue and needed.
Hopefully it will help them move on in the long run :)
Date: Jul 19, 2018 3:15 am Title: Chapter 12
More weak Justin. Lindsay and Michael in jail whoop de do... making Justin cave likes this makes him the sucker. Brian thinking now 5 years to late I might have fucked up, who cares, it is 5 years to late. Justin does NOT need to forgive any of them he just needs to love his child preferably in New York. Gus should be told what his Mother did and be allowed to decide if he believes and forgives he does not have to do either.
I am so annoyed by all of them, I want to find special methods of torture for Brian, Jen and Deb and no for Luke to be happy Justin DOES NOT HAVE TO FORGIVE, I prefer avoidance...
Author's Response:
I think it has been well established at this point that Justin will not take Luke to New York, but will stay in Pittsburgh ;)
As for Gus - how do you know that he doesn't know what Lindsay did? How do you know that he doesn't know that his mother is in prison?
As for avoidance - not really healthy ;) Sometimes it's better to deal with issues head on instead of just avoiding them. We saw on the show for five years where avoidance got Brian :P
I agree - Justin DOES not have to forgive them, but maybe he WANTS to or maybe he NEEDS to for his own sake as well. Huge difference...
More will be up soon :)
Date: Jul 19, 2018 1:05 am Title: Chapter 12
Holy shit! Can believe Lindsay would try and keep Brian and Justin apart but to try and kidnap Luke. Damn I hope she and that fucking weasle rot in jail. Where was Mel during this time? Did she even know about Lindsay wanting to bring Luke back to Toronto? Debbie didn't know what Michael was up to? That, I can't believe.
So much lost time because they never talked. Even with Lindsay's meddling why didn't Justin question Brian? So much unnecessary pain.
Ok they talked. Justin got the explanation he wanted. Now what?
Author's Response:
We will find out more about Mel and her involvement or non-involvement over the course of the story. Just as with Debbie. Just remember that Emmett already mentioned that there had been a huge falling out between Debbie and Michael and he had never thought that to be possible. Could it have been about the kidnapping attempt? Hmmm, we'll see...
Justin tried to confront Brian - it was mentioned in the first chapter that he had come to Pittsburgh to try and talk to Brian, but that Brian had hidden from him and had avoided all attempts of contact that Justin tried to make. At one point Justin got the message and tried to move on, knowing that Brian had once again pushed him off one of his cliffs.
We'll see what will happen now. Will Justin be able to move on? Will he even be able to forgive the people involved in this mess? Will Brian come to realise how much damage he has really caused? And if yes, will he be able to move on from that?
So much exciting stuff coming our way :)
More will be up soon!
[Report This]Date: Jul 18, 2018 11:19 pm Title: Chapter 12
Brian chose to take on Lindsay and Michael by himself instead of letting Justin help to protect Their Sons because as usual he needed to be in control.
Justin didn't need to be raised by anyone he was seventeen, smart as Hell and twice the adult Brian, Michael, Ted, Emmett, Melanie, Lindsay and Deb could ever be. (Hell he was more adult and stronger than Jennifer at seventeen)
Deb didn't raise Justin she gave him shelter and meals for a fee and not out of the goodness of her heart.
Everyone was so busy listening to Brian that it never occurred to any of them to Simply ASK JUSTIN WHAT HE WANTED!!!!!!!!!
Excuses Are Like Assholes Everybody Has One and THEY ALL STINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not surprised by Lindsay she always enjoyed gloating that she had Brian Kinney's Baby and no one could take that away from her.
Until Brian got pregnant by Justin and both of them stole her thunder.
Michael is a spineless jellyfish who will follow anyone if it means Brian will give him an inch.
Michael and Lindsay in jail is good but doesn't excuse how selfish and self-absorbed Brian was.
So I guess Mel is out for blood and Deb is living in delusion about Michael?
Is there a chance Deb is working with Mel to take the kids away from Brian???
I tried but can't stay away ;)
Author's Response:
Haha, another person who is not a big fan of Michael and Lindsay ;) Welcome to the club! I have never liked those two and it was an easy choice to make them the villains here...
As for Mel and Debbie - we'll see. We will find out about both of their reactions to the kidnapping attempt by Lindsay and Michael and will see how it has affected everyone's relationships.
Just remember that Emmett mentioned that there had been a huge falling out between Debbie and Michael at one point and that he had never imagined that to be possible, but that it had happened. Was it about the kidnapping attempt? Hmmm...
As for Brian... well, he always had to be in control and he always had a problem seeing different point of views than his own. We can only hope that he will realise how much he has messed up and will learn his lesson :(
More will be up soon!
Date: Jul 18, 2018 10:25 pm Title: Chapter 12
Wow, what a great chapter. Finally the words are being said to make each of them understand. More pain to come, I am sure, but somewhere along the line, Love will win out.
Author's Response:
We will have to wait and see if love can even overcome this... Right now, as you said, there's mostly only pain :(
But this conversation was needed and long overdue...
Thanks for your comment! More will be up soon :)
Date: Jul 18, 2018 9:38 pm Title: Chapter 12
I wish I could take some comfort in Brian's come-to-Jesus moment, but I can't. The damage is done and can never be undone. At this point, my hatred and disgust for these people who manipulated Justin is so deep that it isn't redeemable. Brian could go to hell in pain and suffer for eternity and it wouldn't be enough for me at this point. He stole the biggest dream Justin had ever had because he just had to be right, he had to make sure he wasn't seen as a disappointment, he had to call the shots. And when the son he shared with Justin was threatened by kidnapping, court cases, jail terms for the kidnappers, etc., Justin wasn't even an afterthought. All this and not a single person felt that Justin had any right to know.
Yep, this is pretty much a Trump situation for me at this point. And that's saying a lot.
Brian asked Justin why he would believe Lindsay, implying that Justin should have trusted Brian to never say anything like that. But Brian held the cards. Brian had ended the relationship in one fell swoop, Brian then obviously believed the worst about Justin when he stopped seeing Gus. He wanted Justin to trust *him* but never gave a single fuck about whether *he* trusted *Justin*. Not even when he found out what Lindsay and Michael were capable of? Didn't he ever even wonder?
There is an implied complicity on Justin's part in all this and I find that grossly unfair. Grossly. You simply cannot blame the victim here. Justin is every whit as innocent in all this as is Luke. Every whit. They were both used so Brian would not someday in the future feel like he was a disappointment. I just don't see that he did any of this for Luke or Justin. He did all this for himself. And the rest of them fell in line for whatever reason.
And you simply can't create a Camelot around the kids by using lies and half-truths as a foundation. Lying to them about where Justin was and why he wasn't around is a pretty weak foundation for building any kind of relationship between Luke, Gus and Justin. One day, Luke WILL wonder why he wasn't as important as Justin's career, why that career was more worthy of putting five years into than he himself was, without even a phone call or birthday card. And then... that disappointment Brian was so afraid of being? Yeah, it'll slap him in the face. There's no good way to lie about this. None.
Author's Response:
In Brian's twisted mind he really thought he was doing Justin a favour by allowing him to have a career. Just as Justin accused him, he was going by his own goals for his life and just projected them onto Justin, never taking into account that Justin has always been very different from him and not like him at all.
Something Brian in his supposed wisdom never took into account or even thought about...
As you say, Brian just had to be in control and just had to call all the shots because that's who he is, but this... he definitely went too far :(
I agree, there is no good way to lie about this and lying to the kids won't help anyone as one day they will be old enough to ask more questions, so it will be interesting to see how Brian will deal with that!
It will also be interesting to see how Justin will deal with everything and everyone and if he'll be able to move on or even forgive the people involved or not?!?
Thanks for your great comment :) More will be up soon!
[Report This]Date: Jul 18, 2018 9:20 pm Title: Chapter 12
Well that answered a lot of questions, but it's still going to be hard to forgive being left out of Lukes life. Gus needs to know the truth, it's the only way he will heal.
Author's Response:
Yes, forgiving will be hard and we'll have to see if Justin can find it in himself to forgive everyone involved :(
As for Justin and Gus - we'll find out more about their relationship soon!